A while back I made a list of Hard, Painful, Ugly Questions.
A lot has changed since that list. I think differently, I feel differently, I see things differently. So I thought it might be time to update my list with some of the questions that are rattling around on the inside of my head.
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A local church (lets call them Church A) just started holding services at a different church (Church B) in another part of town. They are renting the building from Church B for a service on a different day of the week. On Church A’s website it says they are doing this because it is part of their call to spread the gospel to this community that surrounds Church B.
What bothers me is, isn’t that why Church B is there? They believe they are called to preach the gospel to this community.
Is Church B failing at their call and too afraid to admit it, so they rent their church to another church?
Or is this not about God’s call at all and more about paying the bills?
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why is it that when something good happens we are so quick to give God the credit, but when something bad happens you don’t ever see anybody condemning god for not taking care of them?
It just makes no sense. If you believe your god is personal, and not only has the ability to protect and heal you, but is looking out for your best interest. If your God is that big, then I would argue that he is not only big enough to receive your praise but also your complaints and criticisms!
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A new poll shows that 29% of Americans believe religion is outdated.
If you look through out the world, the countries with the least belief in God are industrialized nations, mainly in Europe. Why is that?
Do we need God less than other countries?
Or does becoming an industrialized nation improve the living condition so much that people simply have easier lives and less need for God?
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Why are Christians so scared to read books that contradict their faith?
When was the last time you saw a christian reading a book about atheism, agnosticism, or even humanism?
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Why does the debate have to be either “Creationism” or “Darwinism”?
Is there not enough room for anything else?
What if neither one is right?
Or what if both are right?
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If you clam to be atheist,which is the lack of belief in any deity. Can you find any value in a historical Jesus figure?
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If Christianity was proven false tomorrow, would there be anything worth holding onto in your faith? Or do you throw the baby out with the bath water?
Even if something is wrong does that make it bad?
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Does religion have more to do with geography than faith?
If you were born in the Middle East chance are you’d be Muslim. If You are born in Israel, chances are you’ll believe in the Judaism. If your born in the United States chances are you’ll be christian.
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Why do Christians get super spiritual around Christmas?
You start hearing the call for “Jesus is the reason for the season”, but is he? Historically we know December 25th is not Jesus’ birthday. But it is the celebration of the winter solace, a pagan belief. And December 25 was the birthday of Mithras, the Persian sun god.
Plus if the disciples didn’t celebrate Jesus’ birthday and there is no mention of it in the bible of anyone celebrating Christmas, why do we?
Perhaps we should rename Christmas to Corpmas. A day we celebrate all the corporations that make us such wonder things to buy?
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Doesn’t it take just as much faith to be atheist as it does to be Christian?
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What’s a more radical way to live. Life based on the 10 commandments, or life based on the first 10 Amendments?
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What would happen to your faith if your God turned out to look nothing like you?
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We choose to worship Jesus for his miracles and offer of eternal life.
Why don’t we worship him because he was anti-big government and central bank?
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That it for now. There are other things rolling back and forth, but I just don’t know how to communicate them yet.
I would love to hear any bodies thoughts on my questions, or even some of your own questions.
“Is there not enough room for anything else?”
Room where? In general debate, or in a science classroom of a public school?
“What if neither one is right?”
Then we should work hard on finding out what is right.
“Or what if both are right?”
Depending on how you define things, there are many points that make evolution and creationism mutually exclusive.
“Can you find any value in a historical Jesus figure?”
What do you mean by ‘value’? Are you asking if I find any value in the stories of the character of Jesus as represented in Christian scripture, even without considering that character to be a deity? Or are you asking if I see any justification to believe that a historical Jesus existed?
“Doesn’t it take just as much faith to be atheist as it does to be Christian?”
No, as it takes no faith to be an atheist.
How much faith does it take to not believe in the Loch Ness monster?
Some good points.
I think as far as evolution and creationism go, my point is what if their more intertwined then we want to believe.
The scientific view only preaches evolution, and the religious crew only preaches creationism. I’m not saying I believe in creationism, but what about Intelligent Design. There seems be enough evidence to at least have a debate in the public forums.
I’m not really to worried about what schools teach. I went to school and learned about evolution, and spent 12 years in church and heard all about creationism. I don’t buy that either one is working solo.
I guess it depends on how each individual defines select term like evolution and creation.
Do I believe all of life is evolving and life adapts for it’s best chance at survival yes. Do I believe we are highly developed monkeys. No.
Do I believe a grandfather figure with a puffy white beard sitting on a cloud drew pictures that came alive and created us. No
All DNA and genes are programed to function a certain way. That’s why apple trees make apples and not fruit medley. Is it possible that programing came from something more then just chance?
Certainly I’m no expert, just a guy who reads and tries his best to connect dots.
I do like how you broke my questions apart and forced a deeper conversation, that seems to be a rare commodity in people these days.
so hear goes what I am feeling…
A local church (lets call them Church A) just started holding services at a different church (Church B) in another part of town. They are renting the building from Church B for a service on a different day of the week. On Church A’s website it says they are doing this because it is part of their call to spread the gospel to this community that surrounds Church B.
What bothers me is, isn’t that why Church B is there? They believe they are called to preach the gospel to this community.
Is Church B failing at their call and too afraid to admit it, so they rent their church to another church?
Or is this not about God’s call at all and more about paying the bills?
-My thought–Business is business from whatever angle it is wrapped up and presented. If money, location, people and people are included in a particular demographic, there is a business opportunity to sell something.. The balance of a business opportunity and God will always be intriguing to me. If I am in the business of selling tuna, that is what I will do. If someone’s life’s dream, aspiration or calling is tell you about God: I believe you will see that person (or local church) do anything they can do to make a living off of it.
i am curious about when in history a person began making money off the deal of introducing people to God. whether you call it making a living, or being “blessed to chase after your calling”…I am still curious.
i have seen a congregation almost fade out due to the fact the pastor had a fulltime job outside of the ministry. The cure: bring a new fulltime pastor on staff, double the congregation overnight with a “church plant”, increase the tithe, and re-introduce the local church to the community. Nothing different than a bank finding a struggling institution, buying out that institution, re-establishing the brand with the local community, and moving forward with a new “vision”.
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why is it that when something good happens we are so quick to give God the credit, but when something bad happens you don’t ever see anybody condemning god for not taking care of them?
It just makes no sense. If you believe your god is personal, and not only has the ability to protect and heal you, but is looking out for your best interest. If your God is that big, then I would argue that he is not only big enough to receive your praise but also your complaints and criticisms!
______I yell at God on a regular basis. Nice thing is, he is the one that made me and knows my reaction. People try too hard to give God this lovey dovey persona, when in all actuality, he is hardcore. A lot more hardcore than I could ever be. If you yell, he is still just as present as if you prayed out of your dome. I ask for forgiveness on a daily basis, and daily he forgives me and shows me how he is in control.
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A new poll shows that 29% of Americans believe religion is outdated.
++++I think religion is outdated cause “christians” fear pop-culture. Somewhere, folks think that you have to avoid what is happening in the world, become irrelevant, but memorize the bible to be a good christian. Far from the truth.
If you look through out the world, the countries with the least belief in God are industrialized nations, mainly in Europe. Why is that?
++still sitting on this one. i know nothing about europe.
Do we need God less than other countries?
++++
Or does becoming an industrialized nation improve the living condition so much that people simply have easier lives and less need for God?
+++
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Why are Christians so scared to read books that contradict their faith?
++++back to the lovey dovey christian thing. if you are constantly filled with “one point, applicable sermons on how your life will be better if you just apply this..” you are building your faith on sand. I find that folks that build their faith on emotions and feelings from soft messages tend to struggle and call books that contradict things “evil”. Funny thing is, God will give you the discernment to figure stuff out. “so you dont want to go to church anymore” and “pagan christianity” were the first two reads that gave me a different but healthy perspective on the local church.
When was the last time you saw a christian reading a book about atheism, agnosticism, or even humanism?
++++i got nothing.
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Why does the debate have to be either “Creationism” or “Darwinism”?
Is there not enough room for anything else?
What if neither one is right?
Or what if both are right?
—love it. only because I have no clue at all. you don’t have to “choose” a side when it comes to beliefs. ya may want to, but there are only a few absolutes that I know of when it comes to what God has said. the rest will just be details in the end.
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If you clam to be atheist,which is the lack of belief in any deity. Can you find any value in a historical Jesus figure?
++when I didn’t belive in God, I still thought there was something up with Jesus. There had to be. Who else is that well known?
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If Christianity was proven false tomorrow, would there be anything worth holding onto in your faith? Or do you throw the baby out with the bath water?
–I would totally hold onto my faith. If it is proven wrong, I still ain’t got nothing to lose.
Even if something is wrong does that make it bad?
++++++This just made me look up the definition of wrong. Never done that before. Here is what I found:
incorrect: not correct; not in conformity with fact or truth; “an incorrect calculation”; “the report in the paper is wrong”; “your information is …
contrary to conscience or morality or law; “it is wrong for the rich to take advantage of the poor”; “cheating is wrong”; “it is wrong to lie”
improper: not appropriate for a purpose or occasion; “said all the wrong things”
amiss(p): not functioning properly; “something is amiss”; “has gone completely haywire”; “something is wrong with the engine”
based on or acting or judging in error; “it is wrong to think that way”
not in accord with established usage or procedure; “the wrong medicine”; “the wrong way to shuck clams”; “it is incorrect for a policeman to accept gifts”
used of the side of cloth or clothing intended to face inward; “socks worn wrong side out”
that which is contrary to the principles of justice or law; “he feels that you are in the wrong”
ill-timed: badly timed; “an ill-timed intervention”; “you think my intrusion unseasonable”; “an untimely remark”; “it was the wrong moment for a joke”
treat unjustly; do wrong to
incorrectly: in an inaccurate manner; “he decided to reveal the details only after other sources had reported them incorrectly”; “she guessed wrong”
any harm or injury resulting from a violation of a legal right
faulty: characterized by errors; not agreeing with a model or not following established rules; “he submitted a faulty report”; “an incorrect transcription”; the wrong side of the road”
My anwer will be no. If something is wrong, that does not mean it is bad.
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Does religion have more to do with geography than faith?
+++Geography. other countries have been around for more than 200 plus years. they got a jumpstart on beliefs.
If you were born in the Middle East chance are you’d be Muslim. If You are born in Israel, chances are you’ll believe in the Judaism. If your born in the United States chances are you’ll be christian.
++++to break it down even further: if you live down south, you may have a ton of megachurches on your street.. if you live up north, their may only be two or three in your city. this has nothing to do with anything besides the fact that less northerners go to church than southerners.
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Why do Christians get super spiritual around Christmas?
+++++++it is socially acceptable to.
You start hearing the call for “Jesus is the reason for the season”, but is he? Historically we know December 25th is not Jesus’ birthday. But it is the celebration of the winter solace, a pagan belief. And December 25 was the birthday of Mithras, the Persian sun god.
+++I am just saying “Pagan Christianity” changed my life thanks to you.
Plus if the disciples didn’t celebrate Jesus’ birthday and there is no mention of it in the bible of anyone celebrating Christmas, why do we?
+++I have no clue. good point though.
Perhaps we should rename Christmas to Corpmas. A day we celebrate all the corporations that make us such wonder things to buy?
+++not as easy to sell. need a face to go with a name. branding is tough in the US.
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Doesn’t it take just as much faith to be atheist as it does to be Christian?
+++totally. you got to figure out the opposite to every belief and statement that has been published in books for centuries.
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What’s a more radical way to live. Life based on the 10 commandments, or life based on the first 10 Amendments?
====dang it. i just found out that the 10 commandments are in Deuteronomy and Exodus.
get back to you on this one. but they are both hard.
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What would happen to your faith if your God turned out to look nothing like you?
+++it would be pretty crazy. but teachings have taught me I should expect a big light of some sort.
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We choose to worship Jesus for his miracles and offer of eternal life.
Why don’t we worship him because he was anti-big government and central bank?
++++people don’t read into worship like that if they are looking for “applicable, 1 to 3 point messages that can give you 7 Steps to Living At Your Full Potential and Living Your Best Life Now”…
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That it for now. There are other things rolling back and forth, but I just don’t know how to communicate them yet.
I would love to hear any bodies thoughts on my questions, or even some of your own questions.
===thanks man. you just got me thinkin on a tuesday evening…
I think that’s what I’m curious about too.
You have Jesus living his whole life without a “Paycheck”. He didn’t write any books, sell any merchandise, or copy write his messages. Yet he did just fine for himself. Did it impact his life, yes. It meant he couldn’t afford to live like the pharisees. …. how many Pastors today are living like the Pharisees?
If Jesus was alive today living in the United State. Our Government would qualify him as unemployed, uneducated, and living under the poverty line. We would give him food stamps and welfare and count him as a liability.
As soon as people learned they could make money of the gospel, something very fundamental changed. The Gospel has never been about the transaction of money or paying the bills. It’s much deeper then that.
When we allow someone to make a better living off of telling us the “Good News” then we live, or our neighbor who can’t pay their electric bill in winter … I have to wonder what kind of system is that? is it something Jesus would endorse?
Wow, that one hit hard.
Your 100% right. If you remove the name church and insert pizza place. It’s just business.
Yep. They confront the church and it’s history for what it is, wort’s and all. There is a book called “The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You to Read”. Which means of course I have to read it. I hear it’s a lot like “Pagan Christianity”.
The “God Virus” was a great book, and Dan Barkers book “godless” where good reads. Though not for everyone. They will make you confront some very deep held beliefs about God and society
If you are born in the South you have a much higher chance of being a Baptist then in the north. My question is, why?
Is it the equivalent of African Tribes? We want to fit in with what ever is most popular in our localized geography because it give us an advantage at survival. Herd mentality so to speak.
This is something that has peaked my interest ever since I started reading about the Founding Fathers and the Declaration of Independence. There is no specific “God” listed int eh Declaration of Independence or the constitution and only 1 reference to a “Creator” from whom we get our natural birth rights from.
Many of the Founding Fathers were accused of being agnostic, atheist, or at the very least deist. Yet they came from England where they lived under a theocracy, where the King was also head of the church. I find it funny that the founding fathers wanted to flee from that style of government and setup one not ruled by the church, but ruled by individual liberty.
I found your comments about “So you don’t want to go to church anymore” on another blog. I found this book when the authors had only written the first three chapters.
I’m now 74 and I’ve been outside the walls of traditional Christianity for some 40 years. I haven’t had a full time job for 20 years so I have had plenty of time to explore and ask many of the questions that you have been asking.
I seem to have developed a bit of a reputation for asking the awkward questions to which there are no easy answers.
Maybe we should share some of our thoughts!